Updated 2 - October - 2008
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Cliff:
I did put the following list of Kuhlmann crosses together and hopefully it will be of use to someone. I can't say that it is accurate (corrections/additions are appreciated).
Kuhlmann apparently followed
standard practice in his day and gave incorrect data regarding the
parents. Many of these are not present in the US or Canada. And as
Mark say others have been subjected to labeling and identification
errors in distribution, propagation, etc.
Kuhlmann 65-1 (Saint Sauveur) = Goldreisling X Riparia Gloire Kuhlmann 149-3 (Lucie Kuhlmann) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 163-2 (Fraise Sucree) = V. solonis X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 187-1 (Marechal Joffre) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 188-2 (Marechal Foch) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 191-1 (Pinard) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 193-2 (Millardet) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 193-3 = ? X ? Kuhlmann 193-5 (Mademoiselle Messimy) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 194-2 (Leon Millot) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 237-1 (Etoile I) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 237-2 (Etoile II) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 243-2 (Vosgien) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 252-1 (Wilson) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 252-1 = ? X ? Kuhlmann 252-3 = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 252-3 (Poilu) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 267-1 (Bon Laurent) = Saint Laurent X Riparia Gloire Kuhlmann 272-1 (Victoire) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 274-1 = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 275-2 (Fin Noir) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 277-2 (Colmar Precoce Noir) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 278-2 (Bon Noir) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 296-1 (Neron) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 319-1 (Triomphe D'Alsace) = Millardet de Grasset 101-14 X Knipperlé Kuhlmann 319-3 = Oberlin 702A X Madleine Royale Kuhlmann 473-3 = Oberlin 702A X Madleine Royale Kuhlmann 474-3 = Oberlin 702A X Madleine Royale Kuhlmann 477-1 (Claire Kuhlmann) = Petit Blanc X Madeleine Royal Kuhlmann 482-2 (Institut) = Oberlin 702A X Madeleine Royale Kuhlmann 484-1 = ? X ? Kuhlmann 501-1 = V. amurensis X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 536-3 (Directeur Grosjean) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 539-3 (Blanchette) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 558-1 (Blanc Dore) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 566-1 = V. amurensis X Goldreisling Kuhlmann 585-3 (Mademoiselle Henry Poulet) = ? X ? Kuhlmann 588-2 (Mademoiselle Georges Baer) = ? X ?
Here’s basically what I know. (from George Gale)
Leon Millot Noir or Wagner's LM: Wagner sold a grape as “Leon Millot” which certainly
isn’t Leon Millot. Long, cylindrical clusters of juicy grapes with
colored juice. Can most certainly reach 24°B. This grape is planted
in home gardens all over Alsace. I hang out a lot in Dambach la Ville,
one of the wine villages on the Weinstraße, and nearly every home
garden has one or two or three vines. I don’t know what they call it,
other than, as one of my vintner friends told me with a chuckle, “le
docteur du vin”, because of how it adds color and flavor in a poor
year for pinot.
Lucie Morton has Wagner’s field notes which list from whom he got
the Leon (and Foch, too, I think), but it most certainly wasn’t from
a repository. Given the wide distribution of the vine in Alsace, I’d
suspect that the origin is either Kuhlmann or Oberlin. In any case,
it’s a wonderful vine, grape, and wine, blending perfectly with Foch,
the other Leon (“rouge”) and Landot to make a killer
Burgogne-style wine.
The Leon Millot Rouge is what nurseries--Concord Nursery, for
example, IIRC--in NY state sold (and still sell). It’s not the true
Leon, as I can now tell, since I’ve got the real one, but it’s
awfully close. What we call Leon Rouge appears to be what the folks in
Quebec call “Lucie Kuhlmann”. Their Leon looks right to me.
Lucie Morton some time ago wrote an article about the Kuhlmann mess.
If she checks in on this discussion, perhaps she can add her wisdom to
the confused/confusing narrative.
Several years ago I almost succeeded in getting something done in
straightening this mess out. I talked someone in Davis into doing the
dna analysis on all the available Kuhlmanns growing in N. America,
including samples from my vines, from Geneva, from Helen at HRIO, and
Erica at Geweilerhof. Everyone co-operated magnificently, the stuff
all arrived at Davis, and then... nothing. Didn’t hear from
he-who-will-remain-unnamed (It wasn’t Andy) for the longest time, so
I wrote “what happened?” “Well, your samples and Geneva’s
weren’t any good, although we got good results from Canada and
Germany.” And that was that. No discussion further than that, no
response to my pleas to “can we try again” etc. Absolutely
negative interest.
So I haven’t a clue what went wrong, but my suspicion is that it
didn’t really have anything to do with the samples’ quality. It
just ended up feeling bizarre.
I agree that it would be a good idea to make a catalogue of Kuhlmann
things. I’ll try to take leaf shots tomorrow of the LM rouge and
noir. Might even have a secondary cluster growing somewhere I could
take a shot of.
I am absolutely sure of the provenance of my LM noir. I’ve had the
vine in my custody since ‘74, and it came from Wagner originally.
g
Leon Millot, unknown type 1, unknown photo
Leon Millot, unknown type 2, unknown photo
Vitis International Variety Catalogue
Database contents on Leon Millot
Pictures from the database
Leon Millot
This Leon Millot as it grows for me. The original material came from Geneva, NY. -Lon Rombough
Leon Millot at Lon Rombough
Leon Millot at Lon Rombough
Leon Millot at Lon Rombough
Leon Millot in Europe, ..
Leon
Millot in Denmark at Søren Larsen's place, probably from Germany.
Leon
Millot in Denmark at Søren Larsen's place, probably from Germany.
Summerland Research station
Leon Millot at Summerland - Photo Andrew Reynolds
Most everyone will have the Standard¹ Leon Millot-- Our Leon Millot Rouge, which were available from NY State nurseries from the 70s on. This grape has a Kuhlmann leaf, fairly compact, tight bunches, frequently with a shoulder.
The Leon Millot Rouge is what nurseries--Concord Nursery, for example, IIRC--in NY state sold (and still sell). It’s not the true Leon, as I can now tell, since I’ve got the real one, but it’s awfully close. What we call Leon Rouge appears to be what the folks in Quebec call “Lucie Kuhlmann”. Their Leon looks right to me.
Here¹s a not very revealing shot: GG
Leon Millot Rouge (George G)
Leaves:
Leon Millot Rouge (George G)
Leon Millot Rouge (George G)
Wagner¹s Leon-LM Noir has much longer, a bit straggley bunches, berries the same size as LMR, but with darkly colored juice. Here¹s a shot of a leaf (sorry, don¹t have any bunches): Wagner¹s Leon-LM Noir has much longer, a bit straggley bunches, berries the same size as LMR, but with darkly colored juice.
Leon Millot Noir or Wagner's LM: Wagner sold a grape as “Leon Millot” which certainly
isn’t Leon Millot. Long, cylindrical clusters of juicy grapes with
colored juice. Can most certainly reach 24°B. This grape is planted
in home gardens all over Alsace. I hang out a lot in Dambach la Ville,
one of the wine villages on the Weinstraße, and nearly every home
garden has one or two or three vines. I don’t know what they call it,
other than, as one of my vintner friends told me with a chuckle, “le
docteur du vin”, because of how it adds color and flavor in a poor
year for pinot.
Lucie Morton has Wagner’s field notes which list from whom he got
the Leon (and Foch, too, I think), but it most certainly wasn’t from
a repository. Given the wide distribution of the vine in Alsace, I’d
suspect that the origin is either Kuhlmann or Oberlin. In any case,
it’s a wonderful vine, grape, and wine, blending perfectly with Foch,
the other Leon (“rouge”) and Landot to make a killer
Burgogne-style wine.
Leaves:
Here¹s a shot of a leaf (sorry, don¹t have any bunches): GG
Leon Millot Noir (George G)
Leon Millot Noir (George G)
No info ??
Leon Millot Montpellier (George G)
Leon Millot Montpellier (George G)
Lucie Kuhlmann
I got these great clusters in Geiweilerhof's GenBank back in 2005. Photo Søren Larsen
Lucie Kuhlman from Geiweilerhof's GenBank. Photo Jens Madsen
Lucie Kuhlmann as it grows for me. Original
material came from a private collector, possibly the late William
Schulz of Philomath, Oregon.
-Lon Rombough
Lucie Kuhlman from Lon Rombough
Lucie Kuhlman from Lon Rombough
Lucie Kuhlman from Lon Rombough
I've attached some photos from AG Canada Summeralnd and one from D.P. Shoemaker. Have a look and see what you think.
Cheers Kim
Foch - D.P. Shoemaker
Foch - Summerland Research station
Foch from
Foch from
Marechal Foch as it grows for me in Oregon. Original
material was from Geneva, NY.
-Lon Rombough
Marechael Foch at Lon place, Original material from Geneva, NY.
Marechael Foch at Lon place, Original material from Geneva, NY.
MG 101-14 S.P. X GOLDRIESLING
Here are three photos of my Pinard. It is a
pistillate vine. My vine came from the old New York State Fruit
Testing Association at Geneva, NY. It should be the same
material as is in the Geneva branch of the Germplasm Repository there.
-Lon
No higher resolution.
Lon's Pinard from New York State Fruit Testing Association
No higher resolution.
Lon's Pinard from New York State Fruit Testing Association
No higher resolution.
Lon's Pinard from New York State Fruit Testing Association
Mark Hart: Here are some photos of my 'Pinard'. I got mine from the USDA repository in Geneva, NY in 1997. They therefore should be similar to Lon's, but they really don't look too similar. I don't recall off the top of my head if it is pistillate or not. I will try to check next spring.
Pinard from Mark Hart / USDA
Pinard from Mark Hart / USDA
MG 101-14 S.P. X GOLDRIESLING
Here is Marechael Joffre from Denmark. This vine is not difficult to verify, cause it mature 4-5 weeks before Leon Millot. Small berries always eaten by Birds and Wasp here.
<= Leave from top -- -- Leave from bottom =>
Top shot
LM at left -- Joffre at right .(incl.bird attack..)
Oberlin 702A X Madeleine Royale
Kuhlmann 482-2 at Geiweilerhof's GenBank back in 2005. Photo Søren Larsen
Søren Larsen grapebreeders homepage